tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN January 25, 2013 7:00pm-8:00pm PST
one day when i drove home from a little league game, i saw a homeless man with a card board sign that said "need a meal." so i told my mom i wanted to do something. >> will laurcy is a 9-year-old child. i hesitate to call him a child. he's in a category of his own. as a 7-year-old he decided he was going to take on this issue of hunger. >> welcome to frogs! >> it means friends reaching our goals. and our motto is having fun while helps others. >> i want you to write what we could do for a spring project. >> his big personality does not come from me. >> fire me up. pepper me. >> i think every time you meet will you say are you kidding me? but together with his buddies, they have raised over $20,000 or the equivalent of 100,000 meals
for the tarrant area food bank. >> man from india. >> these pizzas are a delight. >> when you see somebody who gets so engaged and gets so much of the community engaged, it's an endorsement of the battle we fight to end hunger. >> thank you for your time and remember that now howal or small you are, you can make a dig difference. good evening, everyone. it is 10:00 here on the east coast. tonight a remarkable if unlikely partnership from the opponents of the campaign trail to political pals. president obama and hillary clinton sat down together for an interview with "60 minutes." one of clinton's last interviews before he leaves the state department. we'll look at that tonight. aels tim heather is remembered tonight.
why he's so missed. his close friend and colleague joins us for that. you'll hear that from him tonight. we begin tonight with breaking news. the head of the u.s. anti-doping agency, the man who spent years investigating lance armstrong, has told cbs news that armstrong lied about his doping in his interview with oprah winfrey. the same interview that was advertised as no holds barred. lance armstrong saying he was telling the full truth. the interview where armstrong repeatedly said he was coming clean about his use of banned substances. tieguard whose damning report led to the cyclist stripped of his titles and banned from the sport for life, he also told cbs news he's offered armstrong a deadline, february 6th, to cooperate fully and totally truthfully in exchange for a lessening of his lifetime ban from sports. joining me is juliet mckurse and betsy andreo. travis is telling scott on "60 minutes" that lance armstrong
lied to oprah winfrey about his 2009-2010 attempt at the tour de france. armstrong said he used a little bit of epo previously. travis tygart says that is absolutely not true. also lance armstrong claimed he didn't offer usada a $250,000 donation amid lingering questions about whether he was doping or not. and that he didn't pressure teammates to dope their blood. travis says all of that is not true. that he did pressure teammates, that a lieutenant of his did offer a donation that he was doping 2009, 2010. and that he pressured teammates. what's your reaction to what travis tygart has said? >> well, i think that, remember, in the interview with oprah, lance said if he could go back to june when usada reached out to him, he said he would do anything to have that day back
and accept his offer. so despite trying to bankrupt usada and destroy them, they've graciously given lance another opportunity to have that day back. and if lance is truly sorry, he is going to be truthful, and he's going to help clean up the sport of cycling, and tell the truth, no holds barred. >> i want to play just some of what travis tygart has told "60 minutes." take a look. >> you know, at one point in the interview, he said that he was curious about the definition of the word cheater. and he looked it up in the dictionary. and didn't think it necessarily applied to him. >> it's amazing. this guy, you could go to almost any kindergarten in this country, frankly, around the world, and find kids playing tag, or four square and ask them what cheating is. and every one of them will tell
you, it's breaking the rules of the game. no real athlete has to look up the definition of cheating. it's offensive to clean athletes out there working hard to play by the rules, that apply to their sport. >> he suggested that cycling in those years was a level playing field because everyone did it. he wasn't doing anything special. >> it's simply not true. the access they had to inside information, to how the tests work, what tests went in place at what time, special access to the laboratory. he was the one that was in an entirely different playing field than all the other athletes, even if you assume all the other athletes had access to doping products. >> juliet, for him to claim it was a level playing field, there was no team that had as much money as lance armstrong's team. and as much access to private jets. i mean, it was not a level playing field, was it, juliet? >> no, not only did the u.s. postal service have the most
sophisticated doping program around, but it really wasn't a level playing field when it came to the athletes on the team. some of the athletes didn't require as much epo to reach a level where they could perform, and some of them like lance needed more. so it wasn't a level playing field among their own teammates, much less in the sport. >> betsy, your husband was on the team. do you find it unbelievable when lance armstrong says he didn't pressure people to dope on the team? >> yeah, and maybe in his own mind he thinks that that's how he justifies it, or negates it. i don't quite get it. at one point he said he wasn't the enforcer, but at another point he said he was the bully. from our own experience, we know that when franky refused to get on the program, to see ferrari, he was left off the team. he eventually had no job.
>> ferrari was the doctor. i'm just saying for our viewers. >> yes. so i don't agree with that. because not everybody -- i think lance's projecting on to other people what he himself was doing, or what he himself felt. >> juliet usada has offered armstrong a deadline of february 6th to cooperate with them, with the possibility of reducing his lifetime ban. do you think he will take them up on that, that he would testify that he really would come clean? in that oprah interview, he really didn't go into details about how the doping program worked. he said he only used a little bit of epo, which travis said is categorically untrue, that his levels were off the charts. at this point, having given that interview, can he now come back and say, well, actually, you know, even though my ex-wife did tell me not to dope in 2009-2010, i did. can he now change his story, juliet?
>> sure. i think he can definitely change his story. it might become public, we won't know that until later. but i think he wants to come forward. not necessarily by february 6th. but this just happened this last week or ten days ago or something. he needs some time in order to really realize how he is viewed by the world and how much he needs to come forward. and for travis tygart to say, lance armstrong, you have to come in by february 6th. i'm not sure that's the way to work when it comes to lance. he's not the type of guy who really works well with people strong-arming him and head-butting him. he needs time to think about it before he comes forward. it will be interesting to see what happens. >> yeah, but i don't see that as being strong-arming lance. this is not the rules according to lance. usada didn't have to do this. they are bending over backwards saying we're giving you yet another chance.
usada is being really gracious here, i think. >> it's interesting, betsy and juliet, we had dan on who co-wrote a book on doping, and with the cyclists. he was saying often with tyler hamilton, it was difficult for tyler to tell the full truth all at once. that somebody who has lied for so long, and so extensively, in the case of lance armstrong gone after people like you, betsy, who were telling the truth, that he is sort of incapable of telling all the truth at once. do you buy that, betsy, that for someone who's so ingrained with lying, that it's hard to come forward? >> it's definitely hard telling the truth, and contrition, new concepts to lance. but he did make the first move. i don't think the oprah forum was the right way to go. but it's said and done. so now he's got to mitigate the damage the interview did.
and he can do that by telling the whole unadulterated complete truth. usada. >> i want to play a little bit of what lance -- how lance armstrong described the doping operation to oprah winfrey, kind of minimizing it. let's listen. >> travis tygart said in a statement that you and the u.s. postal service cycling team pulled off the most, in his words, sophisticated professionalized and successful doping program that the sport has ever seen. was it? >> no. no. and i think he actually said that all of the sport has ever seen. oprah, it wasn't. it was -- it was definitely professional. and it was definitely smart, if you can call it that. but it was very conservative.
very risk averse. very aware of what mattered. and what didn't. >> juliet, at first he said, well, compared to the east german olympic efforts of doping, you know, back in the '70s and '80s, it wasn't as sophisticated. he's comparing to an east german government effort to dope at the olympics. he also denied that even within the sport of cycling, it was not the most sophisticated. but you're saying, juliet, it's arguable whether in all sports, but in the sport of cycling there was no other team that could do what this team could. >> well, i'm not sure. but if there was a team like that, then the u.s. postal service team wouldn't have won seven tours in a row. that was pretty phenomenal. there was a reason for that. you know, people tend to think it was because they were doping better than everybody else. >> it's, again, another development in this ongoing story. we'll continue to follow it. betty andreu we appreciate
talking to you. and juliet macur as well. thank you very much. we're talking about this on twitter. let's continue the conversation on twitter @anderson cooper. president obama sitting down for his first joint interview with secretary of state hillary clinton. we'll take a listen to some of what they said and look ahead at what could be next for secretary clinton after leaving the state department. a run for 2016? two different opinions. the raw politics ahead. ♪ [ male announcer ] the exclusive air suspension in the 2013 ram 1500. ♪
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usadpresident obama sitting dow today with secretary of state hillary clinton which aired this sunday on "60 minutes." one of her last interviews before leaving the state department. for secretary clinton it caps off a high-profile week that includes the president's inauguration, testifying before congress about the benghazi attack. in the "60 minutes" interview with president obama offering plenty of praise for her. >> why did you want to do this u together, a joint interview? >> the main thing is, i wanted to have a chance to publicly say thank you. because i think hillary will go down as one of the finest secretary of states we've had. it has been a great collaboration over the last four years.
i'm going to miss her. wish she was sticking around. but she has logged in so many miles, i can't begrudge her to want to take it easy for a little bit. but i want the country to appreciate just what an extraordinary role she's played during the course of my administration, and a lot of the successes we've had internationally have been because of her hard work. >> a few years ago it would have been seen as improbable. because we had that very long, hard primary campaign. but you know, i've gone around the world on behalf of the president and our country. and one of the things that i say to people, because i think it helps them understand, i say, look, in politics, and in democracy, sometimes you win elections, sometimes you lose elections. i work very hard, but i lost. and then president obama asked me to be secretary of state. and i said yes. and why did he ask me and why did i say yes? because we both love our country. >> it is incredible when you
think about the fierce political rivalry that once existed between these two. now two opinions from two smart reporters on whether or not she will make a bid for the presidency. but first kate bolduan takes a look back at how battles evolved into this partnership. >> reporter: barack obama and hillary clinton have faced questions together before. here in a 2008 presidential debate with cnn's wolf blitzer. >> i don't want to just end the war, but i want to end the mind-set that got us in the war in the first place. that's the kind of leadership i intend to provide as president of the united states. >> and of course -- >> senator clinton, that's a clear swipe at you. >> really? >> reporter: back then it was a very different relationship, in the midst of an already bitter rivalry. >> while i was working on those streets, you were a corporate lawyer sitting on the board of walmart. >> you were practicing law and representing your contributor, restco, in his slum landlord business in inner city chicago.
>> reporter: but that relationship quickly changed. >> i endorse him and throw my full support behind him. >> reporter: just as hillary clinton showed her support for president obama, obama showed his faith in clinton. >> i have no doubt that hillary clinton is the right person to lead our state department, and to work with me in tackling this ambitious foreign policy agenda. >> reporter: what was hillary clinton's initial reaction when you told her, look, they're considering you for the possibility of secretary of state. >> she didn't believe it. >> reporter: one of clinton's closest aides. >> i e-mailed her, i think it was the friday after election day, after hearing it from two reporters. and i'm pretty sure her reply was something along the lines of, not for a million reasons. >> if she was hesitant, why not just say no? >> i think she did, or came awfully close.
i think the president was very persuasive. >> we're delighted to welcome senator clinton secretary of state designate. >> reporter: clinton was quickly confirmed. but how would she get along with the man who defeated her campaign? could she work for him? >> everyone expected, including myself, that there would be a lot of division, a lot of secretary clinton going behind the president's back. so was there any tension coming in between the two people at the top? >> i think everyone's been surprised. >> reporter: surprised that while secretary clinton and president obama have been separated often as she travels the world, they have maintained a unified front. >> they very early on set a tone of, this is how it's going to be. she is my secretary of state, and from her point of view, he is our president. and she worked no anything
contrary to that. >> what was that moment that you think crystallized the relationship? >> they were in denmark for a climate change conference. >> reporter: obama and clinton believe china and other countries resisting a pollution standards agreement were meeting in secret. >> president obama and secretary clinton were talking kind of alone, you know, in some hallway. and he said, let's go. and she said, let's go. >> so they just kind of barge in? >> they kind of barged in. they said, hey, guys, what are you doing? we're here. what's going on here? we're here. and they got the deal done. >> reporter: they got that deal done, and went on to three more years sharing success, controversy, even tragedy as close partners. >> and i think, you know, there are not a lot of people in the world who go through what they do, and, you know, it's the
president h.w. bush/bill clinton relationship, it's carter/ford, mcenroeconnors, whatever it is, when you're on the court after the fact, you're like, hey, you're more like me than not. we're bonding. for good or bad, we've been put together. and it's always going to be like that. >> from rivals to partners, the evolution of this friendship has been something to watch over the last four-plus years. and is now entering a new phase as president obama takes on his send term, and hillary clinton heads towards her last day as a top member of his cabinet. kate baldwin, cnn, washington. >> so now hillary clinton is leaving the state department, what is next for her. let's bring in chief political correspondent candy crowley and john king. in 2008, barack obama, hillary clinton were bitter enemies battling a tough primary season. now fast forward, they're doing this high-profile joint interview. what do you make of how their
relationship has evolved? >> i think it evolves out of political necessity. it's a very powerful force in politics. and it is not the first time that rivals have ended up being friends sort of. >> are they friends? >> well, look, have they been to the white house for dinner? we're told not. >> see, i find it amazing. >> she owes him a lot and he owes them a lot. there was the bushes and the doles and the reagans, and they all didn't get along for a while. and then the political expediency, political necessity chimed in. do i think that they seem to have come up with a relationship that looks at least on the surface like a good one beyond just a good working relationship? it certainly looks like it. and let's remember, hillary clinton's been through a whole lot worse than getting defeated by president obama. so it wasn't that much to get over. and i think they seem as though
they're okay with one another. >> i do find it fascinating, john, that she and former president clinton have not been over to the white house for a dinner, you know, a double date, if you will. >> let's see if maybe they have a double date in the second term. it's not the way this president operates. it's really not the way the clintons operate in the sense they were rivals. there was more bad blood between president clinton and then president-elect and obama back in 2008. but that was a bitter primary. it took a while to get over it. what did he do? he gave her a global platform, she became one of his most trusted advisers. he is not as we discussed in many ways -- he doesn't do this with republicans or democrats either. he's not mr. social. but they have formed a partnership. is it a close personal friendship? i would not try to make that case. but they formed a partnership where they both trust each other, and as candy said, they helped each other, including right now. if this president had a secretary of state who was not such a rock star, who was not so
well respected by republicans, the benghazi hearings could have been more dicey. they took some punches at her and still have questions for her. but trust me, if it was somebody of lesser stature, it would have been very different than it is. >> candy, do you think she will run for president? >> i don't think so. the and i'm sticking with that, because i'd like to be consistently wrong, if she ends up doing it. i don't. for a couple of reasons. first of all, she has said, maybe not in the most recent permutation, but she's said no i'm not interested in that. i understand the history, and people are going, you could be the first woman. but she will be 69 years old are should she run and get elected. she has been all around the world. the reason her approval ratings are so high is that she's not in politics. and when you've been out there, you know, in the big city, it's kind of hard to keep them down on the farm.
she has been out dealing with matters of global importance. and what she will have to do, and she'll have an easy time raising money, i grant you, but she'll have to spend the night in many number of places in iowa and have chicken dinners in polk county and new hampshire, et cetera. and it doesn't seem to me that's where she's headed. but i will tell you that i didn't think she would run the first time. so i don't get that vibe at this moment. i don't think she's made up her mind, i think that's true. but i just feel like her leaning has always been toward no. >> it's also interesting in terms of hard to predict. people on her staff said, if you asked them a couple of years ago she would accept secretary of state under barack obama, they would have said absolutely no way. yet here we are. john, do you think she will run and when would she have to make that decision? >> i take her for her word right now she's not running. i'm not convinced she will not run. to the points candy made. when they come to her in a year or so and say, look at the field.
vice president biden would be the big heavyweight. he's even older than she is. he's a big question mark. that would be an interesting dynamic. look at the field. no offense to cuomo, patrick, governor anybody else who might be thinking about this on the democratic side. but they're not in hillary clinton's league, at least today. she said her number one mission in life is the global empowerment of women. if they come to her in a year or so and say there's no one out there who can do what you can do, you can wait a little bit longer than anybody else, candy's dead right, the taj mahal is not in des moines, iowa. when she gets back out on the trail, as first lady of the arkansas and the united states she was so polarizing. and running for president. she loves this. she loves being loved. i think it depends on her health and what chelsea does in her family and professional life over the next couple of years. put the pull of history will be almost irresistible. >> you never know. pretty amazing. candy, thanks very much. john king, thank you. >> sure. secretary clinton's glasses are getting plenty of attention
this week, she normally wears contacts. she's been wearing the black frame specks since her health issues. it turns out it's under doctors' orders. its-to correct double vision after the concussion she suffered last month. a lot of promises of a network of high-speed trains and billions of your tax dollars have already been spent to make this network of high trains a reality. the question we have tonight is, where are those trains? and what happened to all that money? coming up, 360 investigation you'll only see here. he brought us images from the front lines of war like no one else. now his life is the subject of an extraordinary new film. we remember tim and his unbelievable journey ahead. [ female announcer ] what if the next big thing, isn't a thing at all?
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money that the government promised would transform our rail system. it was a very ambitious plan, no doubt about it, when it was first announced. the president, vice president, ray lahood, all of the white house announcing a $13 billion plan to bring high-speed rail to america. listen. >> imagine whisking through towns at speeds over 100 miles an hour. walking only a few steps to public transportation. and ending up just blocks from your destination. imagine what a great project that would be to rebuild america. >> that was the idea. sounded great. bullet trains literally whisking passengers between american cities. the president outlining his plan to make it all happen. well, $8 billion in stimulus money to start and $1 billion a year thereafter to match local projects. keeping them honest now. it is now three years later and we can't find any high-speed rail that's actually been built. certainly not on this farmland in california, an area tapped as a high-speed train route.
you'll see fields of trees if you go there, lots of dairy farms as well. plenty of cows. but no high-speed trains. nearly half of the $8 billion has been pledged to california where they have been planting high-speed rail between san francisco and los angeles for more than ten years. as word pointed out in this program before, just by ten years and billions pledged, not a single piece of track on that line has been built. where is the rest of the money gone? some of the money, believe it or not, went to vermont, a state with no big cities, little congestion. as drew griffin found out, very few rail passengers and even fewer trains. >> reporter: it was a $50 million federal grant, tax dollars bringing high-speed rail to vermont. sleek, fast trains taking d.c.ers and new yorkers up to the tranquil countryside and quaint towns of the green mountain state. now, all the work is done. listen. and watch as those trains and your tax dollars whiz by. it's not that vermont has done
anything wrong with the money, in fact they did a pretty good job. they came in on time, on budget. they even got the local freight company to kick in another $18 million to improve the rails here. the real problem is, hardly anybody is riding the rails in vermont. i could stand here almost all day long, not ever worry about getting hit by a train. you can jog on the tracks, go to lunch without looking. >> ever worry about getting hit by a train? >> no. >> reporter: it's now 3:00. still no train. 4:00. the sun would set before we would see our first train. 8:44, and here it is, the first train that we've seen all day. and at the busiest station in
all of vermont, 11 people got off. no one got on. >> i'm coming here to visit friends. >> how many did you have? >> onboard today? >> yeah. >> about 95. >> 95? >> yeah. >> reporter: on average, the train from one end of vermont to the other carries less than 250 people a day. the next morning the same train traveling south saw 13 people get onboard, including andrew menke who is making the trip to new york. how long will it take you? >> nine hours. probably five and a half to drive, and seven on the bus. and nine on the train. >> so the train is not your fastest route? >> not at all, no. but you have the most room. i think it's the most comfortable. >> do you wish it was more high-speed? >> i wish it was faster, definitely. high-speed rail. >> reporter: that's the other
part of this story, the high-speed part. so what do you get for your $52 million share of the $70 million project? just 28 minutes. that's right, the new train is less than half an hour faster than the old train. in some areas the train gets up to 79 miles an hour, but that's top speed. and just for a portion of the trip. >> it's not necessarily high-speed rail, it's -- in the traditional sense we're talking about, it's a little higher speed. >> we define it up here as higher speed rail. >> reporter: she's an assistant director with vermont's department of transportation. so the intent was never to get these japanese style, european style bullet trains whizzing through vermont? >> no. our train stops are too close together for us to get up to the speeds, and then to decelerate by the time we get to the next station. >> reporter: so if vermont will never have high-speed rail, why did it get federal high-speed rail money?
randall o'toole studies urban transportation for the libertarian leaning cato institute. >> the federal government had one criteria when it was passing out high-speed rail funds. and that was, had states done an environmental impact statement, so that the projects would be shovel ready. >> reporter: vermont had a shovel ready rail project and the white house was ready to shovel out money. >> it didn't matter if the project was worthwhile, all that mattered is whether they were shovel ready. >> reporter: as for the low ridership, actually ridership in vermont is up. they said we just hit a bad day. if we waited until the late train friday night on martin luther king holiday weekend, we'd see a big crowd getting off is at this station. >> we had 28 reservations coming into the essex station tomorrow night. >> 28? >> correct. >> all those people could fit on one bus. right? >> it could. but that's not their choice. their choice is rail.
>> reporter: guess what else is coming to vermont. even more money from u.s. taxpayers for high-speed rail. that in reality is making slow-speed rail just a little faster. >> it seems like a whole lot of money for very little improvement. what is the obama administration or transportation department have to say about this? >> well, you know, this was the first project under this high-speed rail initiative that was completed. and when it was completed, ray lahood, the transportation secretary, was out there just praising that, again, that it came in on budget, came in on time. he said it will move more goods more efficiently, create jobs for the economy up in vermont. and it did increase speeds just a little bit. but it did increase speeds. nothing was said about the fact that this is not high-speed rail. >> you say even more money is going to vermont for high-speed rail. why is more money being spent on the project?
>> well, they're still working on this same line. basically another $8 million is going to be spent improving the track on this very train route from what is now the end of the line up to canada. eventually they want to reconnect montreal to this line, thinking that somehow or another, that is going to increase the travel along this line. but again, vermont says, you will never have the high-speed rail that you or i think of, anderson. it's impossible given the topography and station closeness. >> how many other projects are there in this initiative, this high-speed passenger initiative, and do any of them actually reach high speeds? >> the answer to your last question, so far, none that we can think of, or find out about. there are 154 different projects, $10 billion being spent, some of that work is done. none of them have reached the speeds that, again, you or i think of in terms of the japanese or the french or these other trains. we're actually going to go around the country now and try
to take a look at each of these individual projects. it's really becoming more or less a hunt for these earmarks that we've done in years past. seeing what little improvement, or great improvement, or some improvement has come to the rail lines. but anderson, as we approach what they wanted, the 21st century rail network, we're still seeing slow trains going a little faster. >> and a lot of money spent. drew, thanks. what do you think about this? let's talk about this on twitter right now. up next, remembering an extraordinary life. tim hetherington. we'll be joined by his friend, sebastian, about tim. a warning from the cdc about a very contagious virus. not the flu, but can make you miserable in a whole other way. we'll explain ahead. imagine living your life with less chronic low back pain. imagine you with less pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is fda-approved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain. one non-narcotic pill a day, every day, can help reduce
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welcome back. a new hbo documentary is premiering the sundance film festival, that remembers tim hetherington who was killed in 2011. while covering the war in libya, misrata. i had the chance to work with tim in 2009. we spent a week in afghanistan with the marines. here he is with cnn photographer phil littleton. during that trip, tim captured amazing images. he was an incredibly talented photographer, dedicated, fearless, a real gentleman. a pleasure to be with. the hbo documentary is called which way is the front line from here, the life and time of tim hetherington. it was directed by sebastien younger. he made the documentary about the conflict in afghanistan. we're going to hear from sebastian junger in a moment. but i want to look at tim's work from a clip from the hbo documentary. >> right over the ridge, man.
>> i was completely surprised by the amount of fighting going on. these guys were in a lot of combat. >> [ bleep ]! >> i'm good, i'm good! >> he's still in there! [ bleep ]! >> what was interesting is not to belittle the fighting, but i got kind of tired of it. for me once there is a sort of adrenaline in combat and filming that. the important stories is being close to these men. that's what it's about. that's what i'm really there for. >> the life and time of tim hetherington will air on hbo in
april. i spoke with sebastian junger. it's hard to believe it's going to be in two years in april that tim got killed in libya. why did you want to make this movie? >> originally, i wanted to understand how he died. there was a lot of questions about it. and people who were with him, journalists who were with him came to new york for the memorial service shortly after he died and i took the opportunity to interview them with cameras, really interview them in the studio to find out. then i realized i had sort of the beginning of an incredible and tragic story. within a couple months i talked to hbo and we decided to make a film and they financed it. >> what do you think it was that drove tim? i spent a little bit of time with him in afghanistan. we were working together there. and he was so interested in combat, but it wasn't sort of the bang-bang. he was very -- it was about people, and sort of the war's impact on people. i thought that really interested him.
>> we were with the u.s. forces in afghanistan. there was a lot of combat out there. after a little while, combat gets your attention. it's very intense. but after a while, tim said the most interesting thing that's happening out here isn't the combat, it's what happens between the men, between the fire fights, the bonding, the friction, the sense of a group, the loyalty. he said that's really interesting. in some ways more interesting than the combat itself. i completely agreed. combat is a lot of things. it's not just fear and shooting and all that stuff, it contains boredom, it contains exhilaration and fear and desperation and longing. all the human experiences. >> and love, too. >> and love. >> the love between the people who fight. >> that's right. and tim and i both were really interested, sort of developing the full spectrum of what happens emotionally in combat. >> we've got a clip from the film that you made. let's watch.
>> my work as a photographer/filmmaker, i always look to be as close to the subject as possible. you're always looking for those moments when the machine breaks down, where there's cracks in it. i think what happened to us, in terms of given access into this remote valley in afghanistan, is people kind of forgot about us. and i think it was that persistence of going back and back that gave us such unique access. >> hey, guys. how are you doing? you know, perfect day for a stroll. >> when tim and i got into the valley, the things that soldiers evaluate are, are you going to cause a problem? are you going to freak out during combat and need to be taken care of? and finally, are you going to be sort of nasty and political about all this? and tim and i were clearly not doing that.
>> listen up. today we're going to conduct limited contact in the village. we've got 11 u.s. personnel, and sebastian and tim. anybody have any questions? >> what was he like in the field? >> tim was incredibly dedicated. and very loyal to the group. i mean, he broke his leg in combat once, on top of a mountain. it was a trip that i was not on. he was by himself. with this platoon. and he walked all night on a broken leg to get down off that mountain. because he realized that to sort of be a crybaby about it would have endangered everyone in the group. so he walked all night on a broken leg. he was very -- he really thought sort of situationally. like a fire fight would break out, i would sort of be focused on what was happening right in front of me. he thought more about the broad context about the story. we were constantly talking and he was reminding me, the story,
it's not just what's happening in front of you. you have to think deeply about these 30 men on this outpost and what's going on between them. >> i went to an art gallery where they were showing some of his photographs. he had taken this whole series of shots of soldiers sleeping. which i thought was really interesting. >> it was amazing. there's a lot of boredom in an outpost like that. even one with as much combat that we had. days will go by without a fire fight. weeks even. and it was very hot. and everyone was kind of asleep. it was like midday. soldiers sleep as much as they can. and i was just spacing out. nothing was happening. and tim was running around photographing these soldiers. we talked about it, and he said, look, you never see these images. you see the guys geared up in their helmets and vests and machine guns, and they look very powerful, and they are. you take all that stuff off and they go to sleep and they look like 10-year-old boys. that's who we have fighting for us, really boys. and they very much look that way when they're asleep.
that was sort of the essence of what a soldier is, that he caught, that very few photographers would have thought of. >> is this story worth dying for? do you think tim thought a story was worth -- >> i don't think -- tim thought any story was worth dying for, and most journalists i know feel similarly. the question is, which stories are worth risking your life for. and is the risk manageable or not manageable. and anyone who's done war reporting, tries to make that calculation in a safe and wise way. sometimes we're wrong. >> thank you very much. appreciate it. >> thank you, anderson. >> tim hetherington was 40 years old when he died in libya. extraordinary man, extraordinary life, cut far too short. we'll be right back.
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